tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post940327304728247865..comments2013-04-22T11:02:13.420-05:00Comments on Not Ready for Facebook: On renegotiating the contract, or Who Would Jesus Fire?Robin Wallacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-79420845437044091452011-02-25T13:31:17.229-06:002011-02-25T13:31:17.229-06:00Here's the most clear-headed analysis I've...Here's the most clear-headed analysis I've seen yet of what's really going on in Wisconsin and elsewhere.<br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opinion/25krugman.html?ref=opinionRobin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-45884459343482248722011-02-23T21:20:57.139-06:002011-02-23T21:20:57.139-06:00Nor do I.Nor do I.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-44475059093399095052011-02-23T21:19:15.694-06:002011-02-23T21:19:15.694-06:00There will be saints among us. I don't claim t...There will be saints among us. I don't claim to one of them.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387000856873394814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-49323673142113320972011-02-23T21:16:02.619-06:002011-02-23T21:16:02.619-06:00"Just to be very clear: I believe that we all..."Just to be very clear: I believe that we all have the potential to be Nazis. What prevents us from realizing this potential is context."<br /><br />I think that's pretty much true, although it doesn't explain the emergence of courageous individuals willing to resist evil even at the risk of their own lives. I think there will always be Dietrich Bonhoeffers in the world, and what someone like him went through in the decision to march back into the inferno of Nazi Germany and toward his death is something I can only begin to imagine.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-59170001784735089202011-02-23T21:01:39.596-06:002011-02-23T21:01:39.596-06:00Robin, the thing to pay attention to is the econom...Robin, the thing to pay attention to is the economy. If the US enters a period of 20+% unemployment and hyperinflation, I think we will have much to fear. Until then, I think most Americans will be content to defer to their billionaire overlords.<br /><br />Just to be very clear: I believe that we all have the potential to be Nazis. What prevents us from realizing this potential is context.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387000856873394814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-70625878618228842752011-02-23T19:45:20.751-06:002011-02-23T19:45:20.751-06:00I'm also pretty sure the dividing line was 9/1...I'm also pretty sure the dividing line was 9/11. Before that, I thought I pretty much understood the terms on which our social contract was negotiated. Even Rush Limbaugh didn't bother me much back then. In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, though, I felt more isolated and despised than at any previous time since junior high. It seemed as though most of the rest of the country - liberals and conservatives alike - had simply gone insane. Ever since then, I'm still seeing the insanity everywhere. Maybe that demon can never be bottled up again, but I hope against hope.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-84570583622181784962011-02-23T19:17:03.510-06:002011-02-23T19:17:03.510-06:00It's not that I think things are somehow diffe...It's not that I think things are somehow different. It's that every time this kind of political rhetoric flares up, it takes me back to my childhood and the utter, humiliating helplessness I felt then. That's why I literally can't listen to people like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. I even realize that their hatred is not directed at me, because they simply have no idea of who I am or what I have had to endure in my life. Nevertheless, seeing such unthinking hatred directed at anyone makes me sick. And scared.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-62019371821792806612011-02-23T19:05:51.397-06:002011-02-23T19:05:51.397-06:00Well, Robin, I knew all these things, which left m...Well, Robin, I knew all these things, which left me wondering why you seemed to react as though things are somehow different now. If you are frightened now by rudeness and hate, why were you not similarly frightened 30 years ago.<br /><br />I'm not inured to hate and rudeness per se. I think I shrug it off more easily when it is directed at me because I'm not personally threatened by it, and so I see it for what it is--weakness.<br /><br />When it happens to others, I'm certainly disgusted. But other than donating to the causes aligned with my views, voting at every election and trying to embody my ideals in word and deed, there's nothing I can do about it. We're always surrounded by hate, and those who are rude and hateful don't react constructively to unsolicited advice.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387000856873394814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-84067574361786062782011-02-23T18:25:14.508-06:002011-02-23T18:25:14.508-06:00As you must know, Joel, I got my share of rude, ha...As you must know, Joel, I got my share of rude, hateful behavior in high school and junior high. I wrote about the experience on Facebook last fall after the well-publicized suicides of several gay teenagers. I *completely* understand what they went through, because when I was that age there wasn't a day when I didn't think about doing the same thing. I know hate. I grew up with it, despite being all the things you say. I actually have talked to some of our gay classmates about what they went through. At least one of them was appalled by how much worse my experience was. I believe I can trade horror stories with anyone.<br /><br />That's why seeing hatred out of control in the public sphere bothers me so much. Having been bullied within an inch of my life as a child, I cringe when I see, hear and read the things that are being said publicly today. I didn't (barely) survive my adolescence and struggle with the demons it left behind for much of my adult life in order to take a back seat when I see the same raw hatred being directed at others.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-64401137714040969712011-02-23T18:12:43.601-06:002011-02-23T18:12:43.601-06:00"Some people who have commented here have sug..."Some people who have commented here have suggested that Americans have always been this rude and hateful to each other, and I'm only just starting to notice it more."<br /><br />As one of those people, Robin, I have to point out that you're male, white, straight and from a well-educated family. If you had grown up black in Oak Ridge, you would have seen plenty of rude and hateful behavior. Ask some of our gay high school classmates how they heard homosexuals described by others in our high school.<br /><br />The public targets of rudeness and hate have shifted, but the use of rudeness and hate as tools of expression haven't diminished noticeably in my experience.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387000856873394814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-11375188551458183142011-02-23T16:40:36.135-06:002011-02-23T16:40:36.135-06:00Don just invited me to look at a FB thread started...Don just invited me to look at a FB thread started by one of his "friends" about this issue. The level of hatred and ignorance being displayed there is almost beyond belief. It truly baffles me that there are so many hate-filled people who will make damning comments about others whom they don't know, assuming absolutely the worst about them with no evidence whatsoever. It is in this context that I am trying to offer a voice of reason on this blog. <br /><br />Frankly, though, I'm also scared. Some people who have commented here have suggested that Americans have always been this rude and hateful to each other, and I'm only just starting to notice it more. In a strange way, I almost hope they're right. If I dropped in from Mars today and took a look around me at political debate in America, I would conclude that we have lost our collective mind.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-32227099606648644422011-02-23T14:39:36.587-06:002011-02-23T14:39:36.587-06:00Don, you can thank Diana Butler Bass, who posted t...Don, you can thank Diana Butler Bass, who posted this yesterday.Robin Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833599423363541782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-41080328690375620512011-02-23T14:33:03.605-06:002011-02-23T14:33:03.605-06:00By the way, I didn't know--or had forgotten--t...By the way, I didn't know--or had forgotten--that the ELCA had a social statement on collective bargaining and rights of workers to organize. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!Don Plummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970765107980643386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6118661490825517058.post-82017211902199876152011-02-23T14:03:16.503-06:002011-02-23T14:03:16.503-06:00My understanding is that the unions involved in th...My understanding is that the unions involved in the Wisconsin protests have offered to sit down with the governor and give him everything he wants, economically speaking, so he can balance the state budget, just so long as they retain the right to bargain collectively. It is also my understanding that the governor has refused this good-faith offer. So that leaves me wondering to what extent the "cancer" exists on both sides.Don Plummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970765107980643386noreply@blogger.com